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Insurgent

Discussion
Jul 19, 2012
by: MrLevy

Johanna tells Tori, "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like." Explain whether she is talking about Amity or the Factionless. Relate the quote to real-life events. Use information from the text and your own interpretations to answer the question.

Comments

Factionless

Submitted by angads on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:16.

Johanna indirectly tells Tori that the Factionless will take over all of the Dauntless. She could not have been talking about the Amity since the Dauntless never had authority over the Amity, but the Dauntless thought that they had full control over the Factionless. In reality, since the Factionless had more people and weapons than the Dauntless, they had more power than the Dauntless. On page 518 Tris noticed and told Christina that only the Factionless had guns. It was then obvious that the Factionless had more power than the Dauntless. In that same scene Evelyn walked in the room and then announced that the faction system would be removed. That is what Johanna was talking about when she said, "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like." That was the Factionless becoming mightier than the Dauntless. Overall, it was clear when Johanna implied that the Factionless would become more powerful than the Dauntless, in her quote, and that was proven when Evelyn walked in and said that the faction system would be removed.

I like your reasons of saying

Submitted by shanez on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:19.

I like your reasons of saying why that Johanna was referring to the factionless saying that they are the group that is being oppressed. It is also true that the Dauntless thought that they had complete control over the factionless, but in reality the factionless was much more powerful than Dauntless.

I believe that your statement

Submitted by justinf on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:21.

I believe that your statement is true. Even though I think it is true I have one question for you. If Johanna is pretty much an Amity leader then why would she be telling Tori, a Dauntless, that she should fear the Factionless?

Johanna

Submitted by angads on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:23.

The Amity do not have leaders and on top of that Johanna left the Amity to warn Tori, as Johanna also did not want the faction system to be removed.

I agree with your thoughts on

Submitted by Chris S. on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:23.

I agree with your thoughts on how the Factionless would eventually overpower the Dauntless. Good job in the beginning stating that the Dauntless thought they had authority over the Factionless, when they actually didn't.

I agree with you that she

Submitted by irinie on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:26.

I agree with you that she indirectly told Tori that the Factionless would take over. Also, I like your example of how the factionless had all the guns which i did not mention in my story. You make many good points in your response.

Response

Submitted by justinf on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:32.

Johanna is talking about the Amity. I think that Johanna is most likely talking about the Amity because Amity has always been considered as the weakest of the factions. Amity values peace above all and would not get into war if they can avoid it. Even though the Amity does not have an official leader, Johanna is pretty much the leader of them. While Johanna is talking to Tori, she speaks for the entire faction of Erudite because this was the first time that Amity really got involved in conflict. This is how Johanna tells Tori is will not be the last time and that she should not underestimate Amity. This has happened many times in history before, more recently, in sports. During the 2011 NBA playoffs, the Dallas Mavericks were always considered as the underdog. They were critiqued because they were all veterans and were not explosive. When they defeated the Trailblazers in the first round of the playoffs, nobody was really surprised. When they defeated Los Angeles in the next round, they put the league on notice. when Dallas defeated the Oklahoma City Thunder, it was considered the biggest upset of the season. Finally, the Mavericks were thought to be done for against the Miami Heat, but they prevailed again! This is just one example in history of the underdogs prevailing. In conclusion, I believe that Amity will become a great force in the next battle, providing a great deal of help for whatever side they choose.

I disagree with you in that

Submitted by irinie on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:35.

I disagree with you in that Johanna is talking about Amity because they show no examples of how the Amity would take over the factions. However, something like that might occur in the thied book but i doubt it. I like your real life examples to relate to your explanations.

The relationship to

Submitted by kengok on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:44.

The relationship to Basketball was unexpected. I am tarting to agree that the quote was toward Amity. Good support.

Factionless

Submitted by shanez on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:16.

Johanna is absolutely correct. People that are oppressed are quite likely to become mightier than the faction that is doing the oppressing. Johanna is talking about how the factionless are always being oppressed by the five factions. They were always starving and freezing due to rundown living conditions. It wasn't until the Abnegation began supplying the factionless with food and shelter. They began to unite and cease to scrounge for food. The factionless became stronger than any other factions. They obtained weapons and the factionless was a crucial part in defeating the Erudite. They have always been oppressed by all the other factions, but they grew stronger, and now the factionless are mightier than any faction.
This is also clearly seen throughout history. For example the American colonies were being oppressed by Great Britain. In 1776 the colonists decided to declare themselves independent instead of being oppressed by the British. The American colonists was also oppressed by the British just like the factionless, but they both grew stronger than their oppressors. After becoming mightier than their oppressors they both rebelled, and defeated their oppressors.

I have the same thoughts as

Submitted by Chris S. on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:26.

I have the same thoughts as you on how the Factionless gained power over time, sort of. However, I do agree that Johanna is correct that the underdog usually comes back to become more powerful. Nice job using a good example to relate the scenario into real life.

response

Submitted by AllenX on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:36.

I like the comparison before the factionless was helped and after Abnegation helped them. It's also nice that you compared the factionless with other factions.

respons

Submitted by DanielB on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:42.

Shane,
I like your paragraph and how backed up your details with the book. I also liked how you used how your related the quote to the America Revolution which is a a great history moment to related to this quote.

Insurgent quote

Submitted by AllenX on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:16.

"Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like."
I think Johanna is talking about the factionless. Based on the book, Amity is isolated from society, they have their own way of living and their own way of gathering resources to live. So it can't be Abnegation helping Amity, than Amity become mightier than Abnegation. However, Abnegation was helping the Factionless for a long time. Based on the book, they gave them weapon and living supplies and taught them a lot skills. Now if you compare Abnegation to Factionless, the factionless has more weaponry and more people. This is my own opinion about the quote. It would be helpful if you leave a comment below and share your opinion with me.

Abnegation

Submitted by angads on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:21.

I liked how you related the Factionless to the Abnegation and stated that the Amity did everything on their own and were isolated. I also liked how you said that the Abnegation helped the Factionless, by giving them supplies. Overall, it was a well written paragraph with interesting supporting details.

response to Allen

Submitted by DanielB on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:34.

Allen,
I like your paragraph. I enjoyed reading about how the Amity helped the Factionless and how you based your response from the book.

I agree with you, she is

Submitted by charlottew on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:45.

I agree with you, she is definetly talking about factionless. I like how you related amity to factionless and said that Amity were isolated and did everything on their own.

Factionless

Submitted by Chris S. on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:19.

Tori wants Johanna to bring some information back to Amity. However, towards the end of their conversation Johanna says that "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like." I believe that she is referring to the Factionless. I believe in this because after they are done talking, Tris looks at Christina, who then notions her to look around the room. They both look and see a pattern - that all of the Factionless have the guns. Johanna is referring to the Factionless as the people who are being oppressed. And now that the Factionless have the guns, they are the ones who have become "mightier than you would like." Evelyn later walks into the room and explains that the factions system will be disbanded. She explains how the Tori's faction teamed up with Erudite to destroy Abnegation. Now, if anyone tried to argue, they would realize that the factionless have the upper hand. In real life, this can happen in competitions in which the favorite competitor makes remarks on his opponent about how much better he is than him. He the realizes, during the competition, that his comments weren't true, and he ends up losing.

I agree with your ideas,

Submitted by shanez on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:23.

I agree with your ideas, because the factionless have obtained all of the Dauntless soldier's weapons, in addition to their own weapons. Instead of being oppressed now, the factionless are the most powerful faction of all.

Chance?

Submitted by justinf on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:28.

It is true that right after the conversation between Johanna and Tori they notice that all of the Factionless have the guns. Do you think that Johanna knew that the factionless were planning this? Even if she did, why would Johanna be siding with the factionless if she is pretty much an Amity leader?

Statement

Submitted by angads on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:29.

I like how you stated that the Factionless have the guns and that means that they have more power than the Dauntless. However, I disagree with what you said about the Dauntless faction and the Erudite faction teaming up on the Abnegation. The Dauntless were being controlled by the Erudite and they could not control what they were doing to the Erudite. Overall, I agree with most of your paragraph except for the fact that the Dauntless and the Erudite teamed up against the Abnegation.

Yes I did not mean to say

Submitted by Chris S. on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:31.

Yes I did not mean to say team up. Instead, I meant to say the Erudite used the Dauntless to destroy the Dauntless.

I like how you go through

Submitted by irinie on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:32.

I like how you go through that part of the story and just explain what happens with the Factionless. Also, your example of the quote showing that all the Factionless have the guns is major would i forgot to include in my response. Another thing is your real life example which is completely true. That happens often and it is also showed in Divergent when Tris is able to beat up Molly.

I agree with you, she is

Submitted by charlottew on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:40.

I agree with you, she is definetly explaining all of that in that single sentence. It is also true that then they notice that Factionless have all guns.

agree

Submitted by AllenX on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:43.

I agree with your idea. Also Amity is isolated from other factions. So it's impossible that Amity was helped by Abnegation. It's a well written paragraph.

The Factionless Takeover

Submitted by irinie on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:32.

When Johanna states, "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like," i believe that she is talking about the factionless. What she means by this is that everyone saw them as servile people who were not worthy enough to be in a faction. People disrespected them and oppressed them. However, the factionless became tired of being put down by the other factions and wanted revenge. When they got their chance to collaborate with the Dauntless the made it seem like they were just part of the plan to bring down Jeanine. On the other Evelyn, Tobias' mother, knew that once Jeanine was dead it would be her chance to take over. An example of they tricked everyone is when they were all sitting in Marcus' house all happy and excited. Tris states that her whole life she was taught that the factionless were dull sad people and to see that makes her doubt things. Another example is when Evelyn reveals the attack plan on Erudite. Tris thinks to herself," Evelyn's expression is too empty for someone giving an impassioned speech. Her face looks like a mask" this means she is hiding hr true feelings about what they are initiating. They were clever enough to fool everyone in to thinking they weren't capable of anything.

These kinds of things don't only happen in fictional stories. These scenario's take place in school's. For example, bullies always pick on the "losers" or the nerds but don't realize that after all the mean things said, the victim could do something more dangerous than you think. In some movies, they show how one day a kid is fine and the next he/she brings a gun to school because he/she can't take the bullying anymore. Also, the people being bullied could take it out on themselves and commit suicide because they think that their life isn't worth it anymore if people just bully them all the time. On the other hand a real life example if 9/11. The Americans didn't expect that Osama Bin Laden would come and kill almost 3,000 people, but out of the blue he was tired of the disrespect and took out on the people of America.

Johanna was talking about the

Submitted by kengok on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:37.

Johanna was talking about the factionless because the people who are really being oppressed are the factionless. The factionless aren't as sad as predicted. They are actually becoming mightier and more important as time passes. People underestimate them, which causes the people to view them as mighty.
In the real world, people who are in poverty and aren't in such good condition, tend to gradually make success and make their future better. That's what's happening with the factionless. They are believing that they can become an important part the city.
Everybody experiences bullying. In this situation, the victim is being oppressed. But, as the victim is being oppressed. They start to know how to face the bully, causing the victim to look mightier.

response to quote

Submitted by DanielB on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:28.

Johanna tells Tori, "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like." Johanna is talking about the Factionless. Johanna is talking about the Factionless because she knows that those people are very strong and also some Factionless like Tris are Divergent. The Divergent people are also very smart, strong, and can fight for what they believe in and helping others.

The quote "Sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like." relates to a lot of real-life events that have happend especially in History. ex1. When Julius Caesar was the ruler of Rome became a tyrant and took to much power for himself and then the senators of lower possession finally got annoyed by Caesar and then stabbed him to death. Meaning that the people you treat badly like Caesar and then got back what he did to the Rome by the senators. Ex. 2. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and destroyed the U.S. Ships and then a few months later the U.S. attacked Japan by blowing up Hiroshima and Nagasaki just like when the Japan attacked the U.S. they didn't realize how strong the U.S was

I think Johanna is talking

Submitted by charlottew on Thu, 2012-07-19 12:36.

I think Johanna is talking about factionless. The factionless have always been mistreated and ignored. Nobody besides Amity has ever helped them. When Johanna says that 'they become mightier than you would like', she talks about how the factionless rose up and now are very powerful. She could not have talked about Amity because there was no control over it.Although Amity has always been described as 'the weakest of all factions', there was never any abuse to Amity unlike factionless.
A real life example of underdogs prevailing can be seen through history. For example, Great Britain used to control the Thirteen Colonies. The Thirteen Colonies soon took over and declared themselves to be separated from Great Britain and. This is a great example of The Factionless and how they rose up. Another life example is bullying.The bullies in school could pick on the 'loser' or 'weirdo' and the victim could end up doing something even worse to themselves. Bullies and their victims never really know what they are in for and oppressing someone is always doing the wrong thing because you never know if you could making fun of them one day and then begging at their knees the next. Some victims may even go so far to escape the bullying by commiting suicide.